Thank you so much. I often felt conflicted about the stories told to me by nuns and priests of my childhood. In my heart of heart I always felt Jesus death was for political reasons, for the way he lived and loved and fought for justice. We need your message posted all over the world!
Thank you Migdalia, I had the same experience! I heard so much crap in my childhood from conservatives - most of which was blatantly at odds with what Jesus himself says.
You write, "If we say that Jesus died for us, perhaps what we should really mean is that he died because he showed us a different way to live ... The cross then becomes not a symbol of a judgmental God who demands violent punishment for sins, but a stark reminder of state violence against those who dare to imagine and work toward a more just world."
I suppose that's if you adopt the Protestant understanding of those passages and the Bible more generally. I'm more interested in following Jesus - the real Jesus - than Paul, Luther or Calvin.
I recall that in a previous post you stated that you accept the books of Matthew, Mark, and Luke as legitimate, but do not accept the book of John or anything written by Paul. So I must ask, do you believe or accept that Luke not only wrote the book of Luke but also wrote the book of Acts, or, do you believe that if not Luke, that the same author wrote both books? And, do you believe that the book of Acts carries the same weight as, is as authoritative as, the books of Matthew, Mark, and Luke?
So it's not really about an entire piece of writing be authentic. It's not like Luke is 100% true, and Matthew is 100% false. We have to make educated guesses based on how likely a story about Jesus is historically accurate—which is also not a binary. Nobody will ever know for certain exactly about everything, but we can make some generalized, safe assumptions based on scholarship.
Thank you for replying, but you didn't answer my question.
Would you care to?
And now we're apparently not taking the Bible at face value, but making "educated guesses." Okay, then whose guesses should we accept, and whose should we reject?
In any event, my question about the author of the books, if you will.
The Carnal Jesus is a Jewish and Roman fairy tale..Historians and Scholars have proven it case closed.It’s called the Cult of the resurrected god and goes all the way back to ancient Babylon with Horus and many others prior to Jesus.
This is all correct. Nice coherent statement of this essential truth.
And for me, this truth is a repudiation of Christian nationalism or any effort by Christians to use the sword of the state to force doctrine on an unbelieving society.
Yes this is happening again today and it’s shaking the entire world from politicians; corporations; religious institutions; and global elites. I saw the events on the horizon and sold my house; 401K; IRAs; TSP; and possessions. I noticed “unusual” activity in the market and that China owns 70% of Amazon who controls AWS and Ryan Cohen was challenging this monopoly through GameStop. I also noticed Elon Musk loading rockets into the air at record levels. He put dragon in the temple of my Heavenly Father so I knocked on his door and asked him to tweet GAMESTONK!!! The flood released and I trampled on serpents and scorpions and then moved it off the exchange into private holdings directly with the company. They know that I know and the world is shaking because I have exposed the fraudulent system that is designed to put the masses into increased slavery. 70% of the wealth in America is in the hands of 10% where the rich get richer and the poor get poorer. The ~400,000 churches are built on the Federal Reserve System or the Judas Iscariot system to steal from the sheep to feed the Judas Goats and someone called Trump Moshiach Ben David from Edom - Keep this in mind; I don’t attend church at all so this is how sovereign God is that he’s lifted me up before I even read Luke 10 but made me quickly prepare to increase my faith in the final battle that many do not realize is between political zionists and netanyahu where there’s this belief that there’s modern day apostles chosen to rule the world in some third Jewish Temple but the Jews see gentiles unclean and entering the temple requires judgement by the book. God says even our thoughts would condemn 🤯 which means that everyone would be killed. Is this the messianic kingdom that they want where two lambs are sacrificed a day; one in the morning and one in the evening. Almost sounds like our nation grafted us in to the biggest deception that goes against the United States constitution to bankrupt your own nation to serve a nation that will ultimately destroy us considering the messiah they’ve been waiting for is the Triumphant King David that will take down Rome. Keep in mind; this is not ALL Jews and not all Christians. Some are politically motivated and some aren’t but no one would know the difference unless you see the financial transactions or you witness a monthlong meltdown or confession on national television over paranoia and guilt that they believed I knew something but didn’t but now do because that’s exactly who God is. A non church goer was led into their buildings to only discover they checked my mind in extreme paranoia; I left and never went back but watched on television a monthlong paranoia fest that led to confession. It went all the way up to Elon Musk and Donald Trump when I’m a nobody and still am who was just giving a testimony to someone I hadn’t talked to in 10 years that traveled 800+ miles away. I see what they can’t see and hear what they can’t hear because the Father found it pleasing in his sight to reveal things to the babes. I’m honestly devastated by this but I have confidence to know that my name is written in heaven. I have a feeling that we may discover that our shepherds who vowed before God to care for the flock didn’t and somehow broke the covenant that “grafted” us in because on J6 there was trillions that went missing in the CARES package. Some innocent but some were massive payouts that caused massive inflation to where many couldn’t survive. What about the covid vaccine and the media silencing the truth and the church leaders who remained quiet. This is a woe before God because shepherds are required to protect the flock and if they don’t; there’s blood on their hands. Political Zionists entire goal is to return to Israel after taking taxpayer dollars which is why the Lord says he calls his own OUT of institutions because they’re all thieves and robbers serving themselves. Funding their dreams rather than taking care of the people. When’s the last time you asked your churches to open the books for transparency; to do an audit on their books and if you did would they let you? Should someone tithe an institution that won’t allow you to see what you’re funding or do people automatically trust that they’re being told the truth? Why are church institutions funding “science” over taking care of the poor; vulnerable; oppressed; advocating for justice and against tyranny. Does it bother anyone that pastors talk the talk but don’t walk the walk. How many are ready to overthrow the Elon Musk transhumanism agenda even though we have roughly ~400,000 institutions that all taxpayers fund to keep them tax free regardless if you attend churches or not. Does it bother anyone that they can collectively get together to protect their buildings but not your fundamental rights even though it violates the constitution? It would end immediately if they did because there’s power in numbers and voices standing up all at once. Does it make you question whose interest they’re protecting and why so many are radio silent? The biggest names are quiet but would they provide you sanctuary against the tyranny? Would they feed; clothe; and provide a roof over your heads after stealing your funds through AWS. Bill Hwang leveraged and then laundered money to networks; he was convicted and went to jail for 18 years but they all got to keep stolen money in the process and the sheep are told to forgive. What about the words Jesus spoke when he said that their righteousness must exceed the Pharisees and if you lead then you must serve others. Why is Trump handling all church money now and why does he want to abolish the IRS that was investigating them? Does it bother anyone that they would rather see you die for their lifestyles and freedom even though it causes more suffering for everyone else. With that being said; I would encourage all to understand that all world orders are driven by the 3 Abrahamic Religions but there is one that’s faithful and true which are the ones that keep the commandments and hold the testimony of Jesus. Those who don’t pay into agendas or treat their pastors like they’re called or chosen because truthfully none of us are. We’re called to behold the son of God which is to honor; give thanks to the Father; give thanks to the Son; and go with the flow of the Holy Spirit that dwells within us. We’re nothing; we’re human beings that make mistakes; we’re not called to do anything other than stand up in his righteousness when it counts selflessly because he’s worthy of it and others are worthy of his love. He already conquered this earth which is why the sun; moon; and stars shine in the lowest of all worlds and as long as that exists then his promises remain and there’s forgiveness from east to west. Do the Jews think it’s funny to establish some kind of AI Beast where Elon Musk calls Grok (Demon) to trick Christians after we supported them since 1948 and political zionists who were going to walk into the trap but I forewarned them because it’s the right thing to do. What kind of temple can human hands build for God and isn’t the Heavenly Father the creator of all things one earth and in heaven. Aren’t we all the temple of the Holy Spirit and the breath of God. Isn’t the Lord Jesus the mediator and aren’t “Kings” on this earth gods to be respected but not glorified as they’re not the creator but the judges on earth to enforce laws as its merely the material world. Provoking some thought and encouraging all to search their own hearts as to why we’re not witnessing courage within those who claim to be representing Christ and vowing before the Lord to stand as your shepherds. Encouraging all to ask their pastors what they’re doing to advocate for your freedoms and if they plan to do so and if they claim to just trust the Lord then maybe all should ask them who will be the vessel the Lord uses if not them.
7. In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of His grace
8. which He made to abound toward us in all wisdom and prudence,
9. having made known to us the mystery of His will, according to His good pleasure which He purposed in Himself,
10. that in the dispensation of the fullness of the times He might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven and which are on earth—in Him.
11. In Him also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestined according to the purpose of Him who works all things according to the counsel of His will,
12. that we who first trusted in Christ should be to the praise of His glory.
I made a similar argument in my atonement chapter in my recently published book. ….failure to understand the real reason Jesus was crucified distorts atonement theology/theories.
Are you familiar with the works of Ralph Ellis? He points to a historical Jesus many have never heard of, but actually signs with what you’re pointing out.
A tip was the sign "King of the Jews" nailed on his cross. Jesus reply to being accused of being a king of any group of Jews was "You say I am" if the gospels are believable (they are not). And claim that Jesus claimed to be a king of the Jews was treasonous and got the death penalty.
That's a good point. I'm not sure how authentic those claims are about the sign, I would have to do some research on that. But as Clayton Holt commented, the whole movement for a messiah was a political endeavor, which is perhaps expressed in this story. But good point!
Words of inspiration that reveal the true Jesus and why we need to follow his path of love, resistance and tolerance. Thank you.
Thank you Nora, sending love
Thank you so much. I often felt conflicted about the stories told to me by nuns and priests of my childhood. In my heart of heart I always felt Jesus death was for political reasons, for the way he lived and loved and fought for justice. We need your message posted all over the world!
Thank you Migdalia, I had the same experience! I heard so much crap in my childhood from conservatives - most of which was blatantly at odds with what Jesus himself says.
You write, "If we say that Jesus died for us, perhaps what we should really mean is that he died because he showed us a different way to live ... The cross then becomes not a symbol of a judgmental God who demands violent punishment for sins, but a stark reminder of state violence against those who dare to imagine and work toward a more just world."
There is, however, this:
John 1:29
1 John 2:2
Ephesians 2:8-9
Titus 3:5-7
I suppose that's if you adopt the Protestant understanding of those passages and the Bible more generally. I'm more interested in following Jesus - the real Jesus - than Paul, Luther or Calvin.
Interesting.
I recall that in a previous post you stated that you accept the books of Matthew, Mark, and Luke as legitimate, but do not accept the book of John or anything written by Paul. So I must ask, do you believe or accept that Luke not only wrote the book of Luke but also wrote the book of Acts, or, do you believe that if not Luke, that the same author wrote both books? And, do you believe that the book of Acts carries the same weight as, is as authoritative as, the books of Matthew, Mark, and Luke?
So it's not really about an entire piece of writing be authentic. It's not like Luke is 100% true, and Matthew is 100% false. We have to make educated guesses based on how likely a story about Jesus is historically accurate—which is also not a binary. Nobody will ever know for certain exactly about everything, but we can make some generalized, safe assumptions based on scholarship.
Thank you for replying, but you didn't answer my question.
Would you care to?
And now we're apparently not taking the Bible at face value, but making "educated guesses." Okay, then whose guesses should we accept, and whose should we reject?
In any event, my question about the author of the books, if you will.
I tire of theology. Let’s see what folks here have to say.
The Carnal Jesus is a Jewish and Roman fairy tale..Historians and Scholars have proven it case closed.It’s called the Cult of the resurrected god and goes all the way back to ancient Babylon with Horus and many others prior to Jesus.
This is all correct. Nice coherent statement of this essential truth.
And for me, this truth is a repudiation of Christian nationalism or any effort by Christians to use the sword of the state to force doctrine on an unbelieving society.
Do people not know this?
Yes this is happening again today and it’s shaking the entire world from politicians; corporations; religious institutions; and global elites. I saw the events on the horizon and sold my house; 401K; IRAs; TSP; and possessions. I noticed “unusual” activity in the market and that China owns 70% of Amazon who controls AWS and Ryan Cohen was challenging this monopoly through GameStop. I also noticed Elon Musk loading rockets into the air at record levels. He put dragon in the temple of my Heavenly Father so I knocked on his door and asked him to tweet GAMESTONK!!! The flood released and I trampled on serpents and scorpions and then moved it off the exchange into private holdings directly with the company. They know that I know and the world is shaking because I have exposed the fraudulent system that is designed to put the masses into increased slavery. 70% of the wealth in America is in the hands of 10% where the rich get richer and the poor get poorer. The ~400,000 churches are built on the Federal Reserve System or the Judas Iscariot system to steal from the sheep to feed the Judas Goats and someone called Trump Moshiach Ben David from Edom - Keep this in mind; I don’t attend church at all so this is how sovereign God is that he’s lifted me up before I even read Luke 10 but made me quickly prepare to increase my faith in the final battle that many do not realize is between political zionists and netanyahu where there’s this belief that there’s modern day apostles chosen to rule the world in some third Jewish Temple but the Jews see gentiles unclean and entering the temple requires judgement by the book. God says even our thoughts would condemn 🤯 which means that everyone would be killed. Is this the messianic kingdom that they want where two lambs are sacrificed a day; one in the morning and one in the evening. Almost sounds like our nation grafted us in to the biggest deception that goes against the United States constitution to bankrupt your own nation to serve a nation that will ultimately destroy us considering the messiah they’ve been waiting for is the Triumphant King David that will take down Rome. Keep in mind; this is not ALL Jews and not all Christians. Some are politically motivated and some aren’t but no one would know the difference unless you see the financial transactions or you witness a monthlong meltdown or confession on national television over paranoia and guilt that they believed I knew something but didn’t but now do because that’s exactly who God is. A non church goer was led into their buildings to only discover they checked my mind in extreme paranoia; I left and never went back but watched on television a monthlong paranoia fest that led to confession. It went all the way up to Elon Musk and Donald Trump when I’m a nobody and still am who was just giving a testimony to someone I hadn’t talked to in 10 years that traveled 800+ miles away. I see what they can’t see and hear what they can’t hear because the Father found it pleasing in his sight to reveal things to the babes. I’m honestly devastated by this but I have confidence to know that my name is written in heaven. I have a feeling that we may discover that our shepherds who vowed before God to care for the flock didn’t and somehow broke the covenant that “grafted” us in because on J6 there was trillions that went missing in the CARES package. Some innocent but some were massive payouts that caused massive inflation to where many couldn’t survive. What about the covid vaccine and the media silencing the truth and the church leaders who remained quiet. This is a woe before God because shepherds are required to protect the flock and if they don’t; there’s blood on their hands. Political Zionists entire goal is to return to Israel after taking taxpayer dollars which is why the Lord says he calls his own OUT of institutions because they’re all thieves and robbers serving themselves. Funding their dreams rather than taking care of the people. When’s the last time you asked your churches to open the books for transparency; to do an audit on their books and if you did would they let you? Should someone tithe an institution that won’t allow you to see what you’re funding or do people automatically trust that they’re being told the truth? Why are church institutions funding “science” over taking care of the poor; vulnerable; oppressed; advocating for justice and against tyranny. Does it bother anyone that pastors talk the talk but don’t walk the walk. How many are ready to overthrow the Elon Musk transhumanism agenda even though we have roughly ~400,000 institutions that all taxpayers fund to keep them tax free regardless if you attend churches or not. Does it bother anyone that they can collectively get together to protect their buildings but not your fundamental rights even though it violates the constitution? It would end immediately if they did because there’s power in numbers and voices standing up all at once. Does it make you question whose interest they’re protecting and why so many are radio silent? The biggest names are quiet but would they provide you sanctuary against the tyranny? Would they feed; clothe; and provide a roof over your heads after stealing your funds through AWS. Bill Hwang leveraged and then laundered money to networks; he was convicted and went to jail for 18 years but they all got to keep stolen money in the process and the sheep are told to forgive. What about the words Jesus spoke when he said that their righteousness must exceed the Pharisees and if you lead then you must serve others. Why is Trump handling all church money now and why does he want to abolish the IRS that was investigating them? Does it bother anyone that they would rather see you die for their lifestyles and freedom even though it causes more suffering for everyone else. With that being said; I would encourage all to understand that all world orders are driven by the 3 Abrahamic Religions but there is one that’s faithful and true which are the ones that keep the commandments and hold the testimony of Jesus. Those who don’t pay into agendas or treat their pastors like they’re called or chosen because truthfully none of us are. We’re called to behold the son of God which is to honor; give thanks to the Father; give thanks to the Son; and go with the flow of the Holy Spirit that dwells within us. We’re nothing; we’re human beings that make mistakes; we’re not called to do anything other than stand up in his righteousness when it counts selflessly because he’s worthy of it and others are worthy of his love. He already conquered this earth which is why the sun; moon; and stars shine in the lowest of all worlds and as long as that exists then his promises remain and there’s forgiveness from east to west. Do the Jews think it’s funny to establish some kind of AI Beast where Elon Musk calls Grok (Demon) to trick Christians after we supported them since 1948 and political zionists who were going to walk into the trap but I forewarned them because it’s the right thing to do. What kind of temple can human hands build for God and isn’t the Heavenly Father the creator of all things one earth and in heaven. Aren’t we all the temple of the Holy Spirit and the breath of God. Isn’t the Lord Jesus the mediator and aren’t “Kings” on this earth gods to be respected but not glorified as they’re not the creator but the judges on earth to enforce laws as its merely the material world. Provoking some thought and encouraging all to search their own hearts as to why we’re not witnessing courage within those who claim to be representing Christ and vowing before the Lord to stand as your shepherds. Encouraging all to ask their pastors what they’re doing to advocate for your freedoms and if they plan to do so and if they claim to just trust the Lord then maybe all should ask them who will be the vessel the Lord uses if not them.
Why did Jesus die?
Ephesians 1:7-12
7. In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of His grace
8. which He made to abound toward us in all wisdom and prudence,
9. having made known to us the mystery of His will, according to His good pleasure which He purposed in Himself,
10. that in the dispensation of the fullness of the times He might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven and which are on earth—in Him.
11. In Him also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestined according to the purpose of Him who works all things according to the counsel of His will,
12. that we who first trusted in Christ should be to the praise of His glory.
Amen
Thy Kingdom Come!
I made a similar argument in my atonement chapter in my recently published book. ….failure to understand the real reason Jesus was crucified distorts atonement theology/theories.
Are you familiar with the works of Ralph Ellis? He points to a historical Jesus many have never heard of, but actually signs with what you’re pointing out.
A tip was the sign "King of the Jews" nailed on his cross. Jesus reply to being accused of being a king of any group of Jews was "You say I am" if the gospels are believable (they are not). And claim that Jesus claimed to be a king of the Jews was treasonous and got the death penalty.
That's a good point. I'm not sure how authentic those claims are about the sign, I would have to do some research on that. But as Clayton Holt commented, the whole movement for a messiah was a political endeavor, which is perhaps expressed in this story. But good point!
Absolutely Clayton! What a great and valid point. Thank you for adding.
Indeed! And look at other modern "prophets" who also rattled the Empire's cage: MLK Jr, Gandhi, and more.